Hands-on learning now crucial part of legal education

LAW AND ORDER: David A. Logan, dean of the Roger Williams University School of Law, said being “totally engaged in the job” has kept him in the position for a decade. / COURTESY RWU
LAW AND ORDER: David A. Logan, dean of the Roger Williams University School of Law, said being “totally engaged in the job” has kept him in the position for a decade. / COURTESY RWU

David A. Logan has been in charge of Roger Williams University School of Law for a decade, half of the school’s existence and an unusually long run for a law school dean. This past summer, Logan announced that the upcoming academic year will be his last as dean as he’ll focus exclusively on teaching law at Roger Williams next fall.
In a decade at Roger Williams, Logan has improved the rate of graduates passing the bar exam and developed the school’s real-world-learning programs. His departure will come at another moment of change for the law school, which expects to move its Providence campus (along with other RWU departments located in the city) to a location with more space for the growing practical programs.

PBN: The average deanship is around four years; you’ve stayed 10. Why did you stay so long and why are you stepping down now?
LOGAN: I stayed so long because I am totally engaged in the job. As a young school, there was a lot to work on. The first half was spent on two tasks: one was getting us membership in the Association of American Law Schools, and that process succeeded, as did our American Bar Association inspection. That was the first five years. And then the next five years was focused on improving outputs for graduates.

PBN: That’s the rate of graduates passing the bar, right?
LOGAN: That’s the way you measure a law school. Virtually every student who graduates sits down in July and takes the bar exam. Bar examiners don’t ask you what school you went to, you just have to write good answers. The thing I am most proud of is we were turning out classes in the 50 and 60 percent range and now we are in the 80s and 90s.

PBN: What has changed about Roger Williams Law School that’s made that possible? LOGAN: We ramped up student support. We were very thin. We had terrific faculty but not much infrastructure around the faculty. So things like career services, a director of diversity [and] beefing up the Feinstein Center all played a role in making students happier here and improved their success.

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PBN: How has the business of law school changed, at Roger Williams and nationally, since 2003?
LOGAN: The primary difference is the pool of qualified applicants has gotten smaller while the number of law schools competing for them has gotten larger. That’s a challenge for a manager, when there are fewer customers to buy your product and more competitors in the marketplace.

PBN: Why are fewer people applying to law school?
LOGAN: Several factors, but one of them certainly was relentlessly negative media coverage about how law schools don’t prepare students for the practice of law and how the job market for those who do graduate is terrible, making it tough for students to pay back loans. I actually saw that conversation evolve in my own home with a son in his 20s. The idea of law school was something he was seriously thinking about and changed to something where he said, “Why spend all that money and then not be able to find a job?” That’s a big change.

PBN: How do you counter that perception?
LOGAN: One of the ways law schools are tackling this is paying closer attention to the third year of law school. The first year is spent on basic law principles and developing analytical skills. The second year is dedicated to more specialized courses where you build a foundation. There is always a lot of talk about the third year and the criticism has always been that the third year is a kind of smorgasbord where students take whatever interests them regardless of whether it will prepare them for the practice of law. That has changed at almost all law schools and certainly has changed at Roger Williams. … We have ramped up the opportunities for students to learn by doing, or hands-on, experiential learning. Practicing lawyers and judges want you to have that. … An example of this is a program we started last spring that places our graduates in the offices of corporate council. So a third-year law student here works with the Red Sox, another works with CVS, another with the Kraft Group, which owns the Patriots. There are 10 or 11 companies.

PBN: As public dollars are stretched, it seems law schools are playing a larger role in providing legal services for low-income defendants and other public functions. Do you see that continuing to increase going forward?
LOGAN: We have a longstanding relationship with Rhode Island Legal Services and have had placements there since the beginning. We have an immigration clinic that provides free representation to folks in immigration troubles and our criminal-defense clinic. Then at a one-step-removed level we have the pro bono collaborative that has gotten national recognition for its ability to link large law firms with community-based organizations and law-student labor. … As long as there are people in the community who need assistance, there will always be a place for things like the pro bono collaborative and immigration clinic. … Criminal-defense work for indigents will be there regardless of whether a Fortune 500 company moves to Providence. •

INTERVIEW
David A. Logan
POSITION: Dean of Roger Williams University School of Law
BACKGROUND: Raised in the Washington, D.C., area, Logan took a steady path through academia to a faculty position teaching law at Wake Forest University for 20 years. He’s been the dean of Roger Williams University School of Law since 2003.
EDUCATION: Bachelor’s in political science from Bucknell University in 1971; master’s in public administration from the University of Wisconsin in 1972; law degree from the University of Virginia in 1977
FIRST JOB: Serving food at the U.S. Department of the Navy snack bar
RESIDENCE: Tiverton
AGE: 63

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