Kilmartin out front on debates over legalizing marijuana and fantasy sports betting

Moving Up: Rhode Island Attorney General Peter F. Kilmartin served as a local police officer and state lawmaker before his current post. / PBN PHOTO/ MICHAEL SALERNO
Moving Up: Rhode Island Attorney General Peter F. Kilmartin served as a local police officer and state lawmaker before his current post. / PBN PHOTO/ MICHAEL SALERNO

Attorney General Peter F. Kilmartin runs his office like a business – and with 236 employees, it’s the largest law firm in the state.

Kilmartin, in the fifth year of his term-limited tenure, discusses his views on issues ranging from the legalization of recreational marijuana and fantasy sports betting, to arson investigations and identity theft.

“One of the beauties of being attorney general is [I’m] constantly in motion. No two days are alike, no two issues are alike,” he said.

In the past you’ve strongly opposed legalization of marijuana. Do you still feel the same, even with the millions of dollars in potential tax revenue it could generate?

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I think there is a role for [legalized marijuana for] people who have cancers or hospice issues or significant, legitimate pain.

The conversation in this state, so far, has been driven by your point, but in states that have legalization there are a lot of ancillary issues that need to be addressed first. [For example], youth use. Colorado is No. 1 in marijuana use among youth. … The top 10 states in this country that have the highest use among youth are all states that have a form of legalization, either medical or recreational. [Rhode Island ranks third, at 10.69 percent, according to a report by the Rocky Mountain High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area.] The bottom 10 states, that have the lowest use among youth, have no form of [legalization].

Also, there is a lack of regulation. [Colorado’s] marijuana-enforcement division in 2013 was about 10 or 13 people. Now it’s upwards of 70 and they’re asking for more. There is a definite diversion of resources into a whole new industry that, if you listen to the folks out there, is under-regulated. [Legalization] has not done away with the black market. Two states tried to sue Colorado in the U.S. Supreme Court because of the overflow of drugs coming into their states. If you sell a pound of marijuana on the black market in Colorado, it’s worth $2,000. On the East Coast, that same pound coming out of Colorado is $5,500.

The U.S. attorney general [recently] announced the prosecution of a butane hash oil lab, and I have legislation to ban the manufacture of BHO, except at a compassion center under regulations promulgated by the state [regarding the legalization of marijuana].

There is an issue regarding [use of] pesticides. Some say, ‘We use pesticides on fruits and vegetables,’ [why not on marijuana?]. The last I checked you don’t smoke an apple. You’re inhaling the marijuana and thankfully, the court has ruled the state had a justifiable position against the use of pesticides on marijuana due to health and safety concerns.

We’re dealing with zoning issues because of [legalization]. We have people with high-intensity lights in older homes that do not have the capacity to handle the electrical loads.

These are the ancillary issues people are not looking at. What I’m trying to get people to realize is that it isn’t all rainbows. We need to take a step back and take a breath – don’t inhale – and really look at the issues.

How do you think legalization would affect Rhode Island’s business and tourism agendas?

I do think marijuana, if it becomes legal, will end up being a big business. From the business-community [perspective], if I’m an employer, especially in a place like a defense firm, or in the health care industry, or somewhere harm can be done to a client or a consumer, I don’t want my employee to be high at work, despite the fact that it is legal. What if there is a manufacturer or producer of marijuana in an industrial park and I have a multistate firm or a company where folks travel in to visit me and see our production and all they smell is marijuana next door? Alcohol we can test for, and test for very easily. If I suspect my employee is stoned I cannot do the test because my employee might say, ‘I did smoke pot last night, at home.’ Well guess what? That THC is still going to be in the person’s bloodstream.

Employers need to ask: ‘How are we going to get a handle on this? What’s the effect on our workforce? How do I test for it? How do I evaluate it?’ … I find it ironic [that] we have done such a good job in this country educating people about the dangers of tobacco, [yet] tobacco is a not a drug that affects your mind. Here we are 50 years later and we finally have done a good job cutting down on youth usage, identifying real problems like lung cancer and cutting usage utilizing the tax scheme to do so. But, now we’re going to go and authorize another tobacco product for widespread usage without looking at the tobacco model.

If Rhode Island legalizes usage, how will that impact how we teach youth about its hazards?

Just because it’s legal does not mean it’s safe, does not mean someone with a young, developing mind should do it when there are studies out there that say marijuana affects the IQs of young people. If other states are [legalizing marijuana], let’s learn from them before we go down the road. Whether you are pro or con, let’s take an educated approach.

Describe the differentiation made between “skill” and “chance” in fantasy sports betting and how that vocabulary helped you form your decision regarding the legalization of the activity?

Rhode Island doesn’t, per se, have a definition of gambling in statute. The [R.I.] Supreme Court case said chance needs to be the “dominant factor” and in New York, which was the first state challenging fantasy sports, the court had ruled [chance] had to be a “substantial factor.” Chance is not dominant because you do have a layer of skill. You are choosing players based on their skill, performance, statistics, and you are hopefully making an informed decision when you engage in fantasy sports.

Those are two different legal analyses, but you are making a decision and factoring in, hopefully, a lot of criteria. In this state we came to the conclusion that fantasy sports is a legal activity. That being said, my suggestion for the legislature was to get the regulatory structure in place so we can keep kids out of fantasy sports, ensure people don’t bet their houses away, keep bad actors out of the business, and [make sure] it’s legitimate businesses involved and not organized crimes or organizations.

Any industry that has the potential for the downsides mentioned needs proper regulation. Not onerous regulation, but proper regulation followed by proper enforcement.

Are you a fan?

I don’t possess the skill, so I know better.

Was it your experience as a former state legislator that led you to anticipate the legalization of fantasy sports betting as an issue lawmakers would tackle here in Rhode Island?

Increasingly, attorneys general are stepping up, not just as individuals, but collectively, to address some of these issues. I deal often with attorneys general from throughout the country, and we collectively identify issues that may be occurring in one state but we can see coming down the line. Rhode Island isn’t insular. A lot of the issues we deal with are national in scope. Thankfully, you don’t see the partisan rancor that you might in Congress with attorneys general because we all have different jurisdictions, but, at the end of the day we all need to work together because one of our core missions is prosecution and ensuring the health, safety and well-being of our citizenry.

What is the status of the criminal investigation over 38 Studios? Are you still involved and when should voters expect a decision on whether charges will be filed?

First and foremost, the R.I. State Police, with the assistance and cooperation of our office, have been investigating it, obviously, for a while now. That investigation continues to be active with the release of public documents in the civil case that provided us yet another opportunity to compare notes. While civil cases take time, it allows us to gather more information and potential evidence as we look forward. I know it’s a priority at the state police because [Col. Steven G. O’Donnell] and I discuss it often. It’s a priority in this office, but I never want to predict when an investigation is going to close. We are doing our best to gather as much [evidence] that exists, wrap up and come to a decision.

How concerned are you are about the effects of continually rising health care and electricity rates on consumers?

Very. We are ever-vigilant on proposed rate hikes – be it in health care, where we do have a role, and energy costs because we are that watchdog agency. About two years ago a Connecticut governor put forward a budget proposal that was going to tax energy in that state. The net result of that bill would have meant a $4 million rise in Rhode Island rates. I informed the governor and, thankfully, that proposal was pulled out of that budget article.

How successful has the Veteran’s Court initiative been?

All the early results are beyond anyone’s wildest dreams. One just needs to look at the history of this country to see there are not very many periods of time where we are not involved in some conflict. There will always be a place for the VFW and the American Legion. … I am very happy there is recognition of PTSD. When I came into office one of my goals was to help establish the Veteran’s Court in this state. The last thing I would want to do as a prosecutor is send a veteran into the criminal-justice system because of mental health issues due to their service to this country. A veteran speaking to a veteran is better than a prosecutor speaking to a veteran, or even a social worker. The last graduation I went to not one veteran who had gone through the [program] had re-offended – a 100 percent success rate.

How much time does your office spend protecting consumers, including businesses, from scams?

This problem is ever-present. We do over 70 presentations a year in the community, to businesses especially, and education is the best prevention.

Internally, we were concerned about potential ransomware a few weeks ago and sent a notification to all of our employees. We are vigilant because it would be an embarrassment for us. I’ve invested a lot of money in our IT; I made it a priority over the course of the past five years. We have a lot of personal data on people, and, candidly, if you’re someone we’ve prosecuted, we want to prosecute you for what you’ve done, but you still have a right to your privacy.

It is incumbent on businesses to invest in IT to the best of their ability. At the end of the day, I want to go to that retailer or that restaurant where I can feel safe giving over my personal information.

How has the implementation and enforcement of credit card-chip readers fared in Rhode Island?

I’m seeing the technology more and more. My personal credit card has a chip and I am seeing more retailers utilize it. In fact, attorneys general have been pushing both credit card agencies and retailers to move toward chip technology. As I understand it, in Europe it’s very successful and far more secure. Yes, it’s a cost, [but] it’s a cost of doing business. The good businessperson is going to know the consumer will have confidence in you and your product and their ability to purchase from you.

In 2014 you named a special prosecutor to help combat the growing problem of arson, which costs Rhode Islanders millions of dollars each year – are you able to quantify the success of that effort?

We’re almost a victim of our own success on that one. Special Assistant Attorney General John Dean not only was a prosecutor, but a volunteer firefighter. He saw a problem in this state and wanted to [solve it]. I sent him and a second prosecutor for training. Thankfully, I [sent two] because the fire marshal’s office hired Jay away from me. … This is a benefit to Rhode Islanders because now you have someone who is passionate on the issue and has the prosecutorial experience who is now in the fire marshal’s office. Rhode Islanders are getting a great bang for their buck because of the initiative we took here.

Is there a larger task force in the future?

I wouldn’t say it’s a task force, but I want to develop the in-house expertise and make sure we have sufficient personnel that know what to look for in an arson investigation and how to properly prosecute arson charges.

There [are] a lot of positives that come out of specialties. We did [the same with] child-abuse cases and child sexual-assault cases and were very successful. We have a core staff with many prosecutors and support staff [and it is] one of our bigger caseloads that often goes to trial. We have developed an in-house expertise on that issue.

You’ve served as a local police officer, a House member and are now in your second term as attorney general. What’s next? Do you want to stay in politics?

Honestly, what’s next for me is continuing what I’m doing with the attorney general’s office. I have a lot of projects in the pipeline and because I am term-limited I want to continue to make this place the best I can in the time I have left.

In April 2008, I was running for my 10th term as state representative. Which means, had I been successful, and I was, it would have been 20 years as a state representative. I knew then that I was not going to run for another re-election after that. However, I did not know I was going to run for attorney general, and my wife reminds me of that.

There are a lot of options out there – I could run for another office; I could practice law. Honestly, one of the best jobs I had was working at a supermarket, I loved it. My lesson learned is to keep all my options open and follow whatever my passion may be. I’m not closing the door on anything. •

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